N of 1 Interviewing Experiences

Given the most recent, relatively boring post about applying to medical school, this is my “n of 1” experience of interviewing for medical school. This experience was way more fun than I thought it would be. First, a word to the wise- PREPARE for interviews. This extends beyond medicine. Think of what you would ask you in an interview. Also, go through as many questions as you can so you know what you will say in any interview session. As mentioned, pick up the “Pfizer Medical School Manual” and read/rehearse the interview questions.

If you’re on the free throw line, down 1 point, with 2 shots and no time on the clock, it would be pretty impressive if you hit the 2 shots with no practice. BUT, it’s not about being impressive – the point is to win. And if you’ve shot 10,000 free throws in practice, then you have a way better chance of making these 2. Same with the MCAT – impressive to get a 30 with no practice or studying, but MUCH better to get a 34 after a summer of studying. Besides, would you rather have a doctor that is brilliant and unprepared or smart enough and very thorough and prepared? I hate to break it to you, but much of medicine is being prepared and double checking, NOT being brilliant. Let’s leave being brilliant to the physicists.

Finally, when you interview, remember that there may not be a “right” answer per se. It is important that you discuss the sides of an issue in a professional and adequate way. Many things will not be back and white, but gray. Learn to intelligently discuss these things.

Also, I was VERY lucky to get 10 interviews from the 12 schools I applied to. I think the main reason is I had a PhD in physiology. Otherwise, I would say that applying to 12 schools in the hopes of interviewing at 6 is reasonable. Use your score to determine which schools you will apply to, realizing that much of this process is a crap shoot – you’ll get in somewhere you didn’t expect and get rejected from somewhere you thought was a lock. For starters, Yale and the Mayo Clinic rejected me without an interview. This was bizarre to me because on paper (before visits, etc), Yale was my number 1 choice and Mayo my number 12. It’s a bizarre process!

I can’t exactly remember the order, but this is pretty close to the order and how they went:

1) Cornell. Their med school is located on the Upper East Side of Manhattan. This was my first trip to NYC, so I was a bit overwhelmed. The day started with us sitting around a table waiting for the Dean to greet us. I was surprised by how interesting the people were and how they were all from schools like Harvard, Columbia, Cornell, Brown, etc. I wasn’t overwhelmed as much as surprised. After touring the facilities (which includes 3 hospitals that each year are considered among the best in the world – Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center (MSKCC), New York-Presbyterian (NYP), and Hospital for Special Surgeries (HSS)). HSS is considered by many to be the best ortho place in the world, and MSKCC is considered the best or second only to MD Anderson for cancer treatment. At lunch I met MANY first and second year students, all of which were very down to earth, relaxed, and funny people. I loved it. It felt like home – the type of people I’d like to hang out with. My first 30-min interview was with an older pediatrician. He asked the normal interview questions, and then we got off into talking about his workout routine. He was like, “ok, you’re an expert in this area, so give me some advice here. So I have been working out three times a week…” So I obliged and gave him a bunch of workout advice. He walked me out and thanked me for the advice. It was all good.

On my way to interview number two I passed a girl coming out of the Dr’s room I was about to interview with. Her face was flush and streaked with tears. I asked her how it went. She replied, “About as bad as an interview can go. He just grilled me with strange questions for over an hour.” It was awkward for me. So I walked in the room, “Well Matthew, you parents must be awfully proud of you.” He spun around in his big leather chair. “You’ll have a PhD, you published some work, you have excellent grades, a great MCAT, and lots of great experiences.” And then he kicked into bizarre rapid-fire questions. “If your sister were sitting here, what would she tell me about you?” I answered. He didn’t reply, just on to the next question. “Quick, three words your best buddies would use to describe you.” “Three adjectives to describe your family.” Finally he was pointing at figurines on his desk – “what about this?” I leaned in, “I can’t tell to what you are pointing….the elephant?” He shook his head no and just kept pointing. After chuckling at the absurdity of his just pointing and my just having to ask “the duck?...the tiger?” I finally figured out he was pointing at Sherlock Holmes. So of course I launched into how in the clinic you have to be inquisitive, curious, use rational thinking, etc. He asked me the difference between my lab science and being in the clinic. I replied with my best interview answer of the season, “Well, in the clinic an “n of 1” matters!” He loved this. Finally, after about 15 minutes of quizzing he totally switched modes. He began telling me why Cornell was a great place to be, the hospitals, the teaching, the community, etc. For the next 15 minutes he told me what a great applicant I was and sold Cornell to me. He then gave me his card and told me to contact him at any time. It was awesome. I folowed up with him via email and he was very encouraging. I understood the interview and LOVED how he did it. He was assessing how people stood up under pressure. I think I agree with him; he was using the interview to assess something about people that couldn’t be gleaned from paper. Given how much I like interviews and situations like that, I was VERY happy I got an interview like that, as I knew it would distinguish me from the other 900 people interviewing for 100 spots (roughly 5,000 people apply). At any rate, I could go on and on about why I loved Cornell, but the bottom line is that I felt at home there. It was full of smart people that liked to joke around, drink some beer, study, discuss ideas big and small, and they were from all walks of life. I was accepted “early” in December and was THRILLED.

2) Univeristy of Alabama School of Medicine. I followed up the Cornell interview with UAB. UAB is a GREAT school with lots of funding and good research. But at the end of the day it is an Alabama state school and thus accepts mostly Alabama kids. In general the scores are a bit lower, etc. I really liked the people I met at UAB; there were just a few too many kids that thought they were God’s gift. It was weird, because this began a trend I saw across my interviews that surprised me. Again, this is my “n of 1” experience, but it seemed that at the “state” schools with the lower scores, there were way more students that wanted to tell you how smart they were and how they studied, and what you needed to do when you got there. I remember thinking, “Hey, no offense there, but I think everyone here is pretty smart and will do fine. Studying from 5-7 in the morning worked for you, that’s great. I’m sure I’ll figure out my own plan.” My working hypothesis is that a lot of these kids have always been the smart ones, in HS, in college, in their family. And so perhaps they develop this view of themselves as knowing the way, knowing how to study, being the expert, etc. I had the feeling that at some of top schools that the students had been around enough crazy-brilliant people that they knew they were nothing special. I certainly learned that I am a bottom feeder at Cornell! As Mandy pointed out on revisit weekend last year as we flipped through the “who we are book” of current Cornell Med students, “Matt, are you sure you’ve been accepted here??” These folks are rock stars!

Funny UAB interview stories: In one interview, I had a middle-aged black doctor who was pumping me up, “Matthew, listen to me here man, you got this PhD thing in physiology, and you want to do Oncology. I’m telling you, this could be big man. You’ll go into a field with a totally different perspective, that’s what it takes!” I loved this guy. Then I had a stuffy middle-age white doctor interview me. He kept telling me I needed to continue with Exercise Physiology stuff. I told him that I love physiology but was interested in Oncology. He was awkward all around, but finally asked me what type of music I liked. For some reason I responded with “everything from classical to good ol' southern Atlanta rap.” He just stared at me and said nothing. That’s right, good ol' southern ATL rap. Haha. I got into UAB and received a small scholarship. I even revisited here and really enjoyed the people. I would have gone here in a heartbeat if I were in state in Alabama or if they had given me a bigger scholarship. But the little bit they gave me didn’t justify going there.

3) USC in Columbia (South Carolina). I enjoyed this school. In fact, I had another “tough” interview which I thought was great. It was full of tough questions which I thought were great. In fact, this one faculty member asked me, “You have good scores and I presume you’ll get into to several “top” schools, why should we even waste our time by offering you a spot?” I replied with the facts – “USC is a state-subsidized school and claims to want to educate SC’s students. In that vein, it should seek to keep the best students of the state in the state. I love SC and would have no problem staying here. If a student is judged to be “one of the best” SC students, then it makes little sense to not offer him/her a spot – that should be the applicant’s choice. The university owes it to the taxpayer to try to retain the best of the state.” (Or something like that.) Ultimately I was accepted and offered a scholarship but had to turn it down. I actually liked the school, but there wasn’t a lot of major research going on, no major lab or hospital facilities, and matching to an “academic” residency would have been very difficult from here. Career-wise it made no sense.

4) Medical University of South Carolina (Charleston, SC). Interesting trip. Ultimately this school was nice, but there was a bit too much “selling” themselves as a major research institution. Not that great research isn’t happening there. It is. At any rate, one interviewer absolutely tried to rake me over the coals about whether I would finish my PhD on time to begin med school. In fact, she was quite rude about it. (Insert boring details here.) She actually went so far as to tell me about her PhD and how long it took and blah blah blah. Later, she eventually CALLED my PI on the phone to ask him if I would finish my PhD on time. The ironic thing is that the drugs I used in my dissertation didn’t work and I indeed did not finish my PhD on time. Ultimately, this school was going to cost about the same as Cornell (or maybe 10k per year cheaper) after grants, etc. It just wasn’t worth it for someone wanting to go into academic medicine.

5) Georgetown. This place was nice, although I hardly met any students and the school is NOT in the heart of DC like I thought it would be. My dad and I took this trip together and we tried to grab a beer the night before and couldn’t find a place! The students also seemed, well, not all that happy, although I’m not sure why. There was also a strange talk about life and abortion that one of the deans gave. Scientifically it was a bit off, which bothered me. Ultimately it costs too much for a school that I didn’t think could give me what other "top" schools could and wasn’t in the heart of the city. There were some nice facilities though. As for the interview process, I had a big argument about the healthcare system and what needs to be done to fix it. Basically, I was talking about ideas from one of Obama’s books, about how the government’s role should be to stimulate and check the free market. It was the type of discussions/arguments I was having on a near-daily basis then so it was a lot of fun. Ultimately I got accepted here, but I just didn’t like it as much as the other programs I visited.

6) Chicago (Pritzker). This was a very nice school. In fact, I REALLY liked this place. Nothing unusual about interviews really. They didn’t house me and I had to pay to stay in the International house (which really annoyed me), but other than that no problems. After the weekend I was sent a letter saying I should continue to show interest as my file would continue to be in review. I thought this was crap. I had spent my own money to apply, written their specific application, traveled up to Chicago, taken time off from school and work, housed myself, and they want more interest? Well in typical Matthew-fashion, I said shove it, it wasn’t THAT great. Seriously, at that point it was too much. So I effectively withdrew; I never contacted them except to say I was going to Cornell. Show more interest? In my view it was time for THEM to show a bit of interest.

7) UC San Diego. This school was great. I stayed with a student who took me over in the morning to the 8 o’clock session. He told me not to worry about being late, everything in San Diego happens late. So I rolled in at 8:10 with him because we stopped to have coffee. I was there for a few minutes when someone burst into the room and said “San Diego is on fire – everything is being shut down and evacuated!” Yes, you saw this on the news. So the lady told us to go home – interviews and tours were canceled, we would have to reschedule. I spoke up “Woa woa woa, I can’t fly back out here. It costs too much. If you send me home now I am just not coming here.” I think the other students were surprised at my saying this (after all, this is UCSD, a top-tier program). But the dean came back and said that for students from out of town, they would do a few quick interviews for us. So they did, and they went very well. Then we went and ate and drank a few beers with the first years. It was great. The only points of concern were the insane curriculum (lecture 8-5 each day….uh) and the students’ perception that UCSD was not that good. When I told them it was my only California school because I liked it on paper better than the others, they thought I was crazy (why not Stanford, UCLA, UCSF?). Also, they seemed to think Cornell and Harvard were way out of their league – I should go to one of those. It was a bit weird. BUT, I loved the school, research, atmosphere and weather. I ultimately revisited here and decided Cornell was just better. If this were free I would have gone there over Cornell, but it actually was going to be more expensive.

8) NYU. Nice school. Great trauma hospital. Didn’t get to meet many students. By the time I took this interview I was pretty set on Cornell, and ended up hanging out with Cornell students while I was in town. One funny interview moment: After a great interview, and right after my interviewer told me I was a great candidate and he hoped I seriously considered NYU, we got up to leave. Now, this was a small room with just enough room for one person to get by the table to the door to leave. I was seated closest to the door. I tried to open the door, but it was one of those fancy handles that lifts up and then you turn it (hard to describe). Basically, I couldn’t open it; I’m pushing it like a button, trying to slide it, pushing with my shoulder. All the while he’s trying to explain how to open it. Finally he awkwardly tries to slide by me to open it. Awkwardness all around. In the end I got in here, but financial aid wasn’t great, and I was still in love with Cornell.

9) Harvard. This was actually a very nice program. The hospitals here are world class (Brigham and Women’s, MGH, Beth Israel) and they have research money coming out the butt. It was also cool to see all the historical stuff there. There is no doubt that this name carries heavy weight outside of the medical world (and in). It is strange though, because you could go to Mayo Clinic or Harvard for med school and I’d be hard-pressed to tell you which is better; but most people outside of medicine love the name Harvard. Nonetheless, interviews here were actually a bit too “boring” and non-confrontational. It was a case of where I didn’t think we really discussed anything important. Later I found out that at Harvard, rather than one of your interviewers going to an admissions meeting and presenting you (“this is a kid we want, our kind of person”), they simply gave you a number score and passed your folder on to the next committee, where they evaluate everything all over again. This kind of annoyed me ‘cause it seemed like a poor way to select your medical class. At any rate, the people seemed really nice, although a bit stuffier than the Cornell folks. I actually felt like my interviews went so well I was going to have to decide between here and Cornell (the name vs. the school I love). Ultimately, I got rejected post-interview! Easy decision.

10) Duke. This was LATE in the interview season (late Feb). Nevertheless, I thought the school was very nice, but it left something to be desired. The students didn’t seem as happy or fun as Cornell, and they kept telling us how Duke was as good as a Columbia, Cornell, and Harvard. Which is weird because Duke has so much funding they are generally considered as good if not better than those programs. This was my only interview where an interviewer told me I would probably get in and she hoped I considered Duke, but then I got waitlisted. Ultimately I took my name off the waitlist. It wasn’t close to Cornell in my mind. Duke is no doubt a great program, but there was some strange aura to it; why did they keep having to tell me how competitive and great a program it was? I would have gone here if it was paid for, but otherwise it wasn’t worth it to me.

That was the interview season! Exhausting but fun…In the end I got my first choice- I was lucky. I was also well-prepared. If you are interviewing now, just be as prepared as you can be and have fun with it. For those of you who could care less about this, I’ll be back to Haiti posts now! I just posted the Med Application info and had some interest to post more (I’m a slave to the few readers of this blog! I’m working for the people here!).